WEBVTT 00:00:01.679 --> 00:00:10.439 align:middle line:84% First of all, the question: November 9th, Fall of the Berlin Wall: How did you experience the story? 00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:23.559 align:middle line:84% I can remember this time very well, I was still a police officer and at that time still employed in Dusseldorf 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:27.940 align:middle line:84% I had lived in Bochum 00:00:27.940 --> 00:00:34.679 align:middle line:84% The time of the fall of the Wall has a long history: the famous Monday demonstrations. 00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:43.759 align:middle line:84% I can remember that we also had a very intensive exchange with colleagues 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:51.159 align:middle line:84% We told various stories, watched news and followed the current events of the day 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:57.219 align:middle line:84% Then it went slowly, but in a development that you had not expected so soon 00:00:57.219 --> 00:01:07.319 align:middle line:84% I am thinking of the famous words of Mr Tschabowsky, who in the end triggered the storm on the border crossings 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:12.379 align:middle line:84% But the weeks before were actually really exciting 00:01:12.379 --> 00:01:25.500 align:middle line:84% to see how people who grew up in this regime and gathered their experiences over a lifetime 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:34.260 align:middle line:84% dared to raise their voices 00:01:34.260 --> 00:01:40.980 align:middle line:84% at the same time they did not know what to expect from the side of the state 00:01:40.980 --> 00:01:45.019 align:middle line:84% in terms of violence 00:01:45.019 --> 00:01:52.760 align:middle line:84% I am also thinking of the people in China, at that time with the massacre of the Red Army 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:58.159 align:middle line:84% Therefore, I found the weeks before incredibly touching 00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:02.859 align:middle line:84% and I was then just 26 years old 00:02:02.859 --> 00:02:08.240 align:middle line:84% I would not think of myself as a highly politically interested person at the time 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:11.280 align:middle line:84% and yet it had mesmerized me 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:14.639 align:middle line:84% At the time, we were really asking ourselves 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:22.379 align:middle line:84% how should this work with the state-sponsored state loyal - police officers - how can this be integrated at all 00:02:22.379 --> 00:02:28.099 align:middle line:84% into an apparatus like the police of West-Germany 00:02:28.099 --> 00:02:33.840 align:middle line:84% We could not have imagined that this could work 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:39.560 align:middle line:84% So we've probably had prejudices too, thinking that we can not recruit any of them 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:45.939 align:middle line:84% I remember that the entire senior management team of the Police was exchanged 00:02:45.939 --> 00:03:05.120 align:middle line:84% That is, it was really established policemen with leadership experience from the West imported to the East in order to regulate all that is the rule, too 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:15.580 align:middle line:84% I also know that there has been a big wave of sortings 00:03:15.580 --> 00:03:21.960 align:middle line:84% Not all policemen, who were then, were allowed to stay a police officer 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:27.360 align:middle line:84% That's where we come up with a very topical question 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:33.419 align:middle line:84% if you look at it, the leadership level was exchanged by West citizens 00:03:33.419 --> 00:03:40.479 align:middle line:84% in many other areas companies were taken over by Western companies 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:54.280 align:middle line:84% Many citizens were suddenly confronted with many great and leading personalities from another country 00:03:54.280 --> 00:04:03.699 align:middle line:84% Now, looking back on 30 years, how has that influenced the citizens? 00:04:03.699 --> 00:04:07.740 align:middle line:84% I think that this had a big impact 00:04:07.740 --> 00:04:14.139 align:middle line:84% For a while this has something devaluing for me 00:04:14.139 --> 00:04:21.540 align:middle line:84% When people in the new states quickly became clear 00:04:21.540 --> 00:04:38.720 align:middle line:90% that all decisions and fundamental changes all that's in it is not something you can do on your own 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:50.160 align:middle line:84% it takes Western experience, so we import those smart minds too 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:57.560 align:middle line:84% I think that's frustrating and devaluing for people 00:04:57.560 --> 00:05:03.279 align:middle line:84% With this observation and the outcome of the last European elections 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:07.319 align:middle line:84% what the citizens of the former GDR chose 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:15.060 align:middle line:84% namely nationalist parties that argue xenophobic - do you see a connection? 00:05:15.060 --> 00:05:27.860 align:middle line:84% In any case, I really believe that the cornerstone of this anger 00:05:27.860 --> 00:05:36.600 align:middle line:84% was laid on established politicians and parties, at that time, 30 years ago 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:42.339 align:middle line:84% Because so much has happened within a very short time 00:05:42.339 --> 00:05:47.720 align:middle line:84% jobs have been terminated from one day to the next 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:53.100 align:middle line:84% the livelihoods have been taken from numerous people 00:05:53.100 --> 00:05:56.459 align:middle line:84% They were left with fear 00:05:56.459 --> 00:06:11.620 align:middle line:84% I think that this is one of the main reasons why people in today's new federal states are clearly more nationalistic 00:06:11.620 --> 00:06:14.639 align:middle line:84% So much has been promised to these people 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:19.360 align:middle line:84% remember the words of Helmut Kohl, "The Flowering Landscapes" 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:25.079 align:middle line:84% but at the same time everything has been torn down 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:33.839 align:middle line:84% I simply believe that it was not wise to push this process so fast 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:41.899 align:middle line:84% I think, as I said back then, that it would be wise to take a step back and take a look 00:06:41.899 --> 00:06:48.980 align:middle line:84% how could it work and really involve people 00:06:48.980 --> 00:07:04.800 align:middle line:84% And to look once, what was positive in the GDR, what is worth, preserved, promoted or imported into the West 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:13.879 align:middle line:84% Of course, people had a freedom they would never have received, 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:18.600 align:middle line:84% but they paid a very large price for it 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:29.040 align:middle line:84% I already said that biographies were changed, especially with regard to the profession 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:42.839 align:middle line:84% I also believe that the people who live in certain areas are left behind 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:53.939 align:middle line:84% and the money has flowed into the larger cities, such as Leipzig, Jena or Schwerin 00:07:53.939 --> 00:08:04.720 align:middle line:84% and the rural areas have been left out, still today 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:15.819 align:middle line:84% Today, people in the villages are still fighting for their existence 00:08:15.819 --> 00:08:23.560 align:middle line:84% The younger generation is now going in the booming cities 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:34.000 align:middle line:84% or the western, to get there a better job and in general life 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:42.419 align:middle line:84% If we look again at the next generation 00:08:42.419 --> 00:08:46.120 align:middle line:84% you are also the father of children 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:53.179 align:middle line:84% is there also this attitude East - West or how did that develop? 00:08:53.179 --> 00:08:59.580 align:middle line:84% Has this evolved differently for the next generation than for your generation? 00:08:59.580 --> 00:09:04.620 align:middle line:84% I think if I now think of my three daughters 00:09:04.620 --> 00:09:14.720 align:middle line:84% I do not feel an attitude hostile to the East, not even among their friends 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:32.899 align:middle line:84% Rather, I experience an interest in the conditions that people in the new federal states still have today 00:09:32.899 --> 00:09:39.639 align:middle line:84% My oldest daughter is living and studying in Greifswald for years 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:46.360 align:middle line:84% and has had a lot of positive experiences on the spot 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:56.460 align:middle line:84% We also had a conversation where she said there was no difference 00:09:56.460 --> 00:10:09.600 align:middle line:84% No matter whether she meets her peers from Freiburg or meets her peers from Gera - no difference is noticeable 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:16.320 align:middle line:84% If we look again at the changes caused by the fall of the Wall in the direction of Eastern Europe 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:30.460 align:middle line:84% not only did the former GDR join the EU, but also Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovenia etc. 00:10:30.460 --> 00:10:46.279 align:middle line:84% How is your assessment? Is that more of a benefit for us, or do you share the skepticism of these accessions to the EU? 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:49.980 align:middle line:84% I do not have any skepticism at all 00:10:49.980 --> 00:11:03.779 align:middle line:84% I believe that everything that goes in the direction of accession to the EU can simply be an enrichment 00:11:03.779 --> 00:11:14.899 align:middle line:84% I like to live in a Europe where I meet people from different life contexts and cultures 00:11:14.899 --> 00:11:25.340 align:middle line:84% I know that it is also a very big economic challenge for Europe 00:11:25.340 --> 00:11:45.000 align:middle line:84% I also find it difficult how Poland deals with media freedom and yet I find the added value of sharing experiences and free borders much more important 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:50.000 align:middle line:84% I would rather live in such a Europe that makes it possible